2004 Cadillac DeVille I have coolant leaking onto my driveway.
I have coolant leaking onto my driveway.
What is your question?
I had the heads repaired and replaced plus a new water pump put in in Sept 2014. A few weeks later I started to have fluid leaking into my driveway. Took it to my local mech (he didn't do heads). He told me it was the pipes underneath. Had replaced. Still leaking. Took back and then it was the water pump. Still leaking. Took back then it was radiator hose. replaced. still leaking. now dash is telling me to check coolant level. leaking but not low. mech said that they ran it for 20 min & it lost about a cup of coolant. Now I have been checking every am and pm but just started to hear a hiss after turning car off hear coolant resivior. am under warrant for heads. local mech told me safe to drive short distances. afraid that if I do I will overheat it and then warranty wont be honored. could it be a sensor or somehow coolant isnt going thoough system? wanted to make sure it wasnt something simple before I took it back to guy who fixed heads. can someone give me any imput? am on chemo now and now working so am on tight budget. Car not worth mmuch more money investment. but need transpo. Please reply. tks....Confused
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In my opinion, you might get better value for your buck at a Cadillac dealer.
The Northstar engine used in these Cadillacs is a very good engine but it has significant design weaknesses in the cooling system. Whoever did the head work should have replaced all of the coolant hoses, thermostat and power-flushed the system.
A properly operating Northstar cooling system will NOT lose ANY coolant.
Not knowing your situation, I would recommend going back to the "head" guy (because he sounds like he might have more on the ball) and ask him to go over the whole cooling system and resolve all the leaks. Alternately, get into a Cadillac dealer for same and make a list of all that's been done so they know what the situation is.
In your present state, before driving (in other words while it is cold), make sure the coolant reservoir level is correct. Add some if needed. Buy a 50/50 premix so you don't have to mess around mixing coolant and water yourself. The OEM coolant color was orange (Dexron I think GM calls it). That is the ONLY coolant rated and recommended for Cadillac's Northstar engines by GM. You're looking for Prestone DEX-Cool 50/50 antifreeze or equivalent. Autozone sells that under part number AF850. They also sell a house-branded version under part number AQA053**.
Another very remote possibility is the head guy didn't rework the head bolt threads -- an absolute necessity with Northstar engines -- and the new head gasket failed ... but that is not likely if you are seeing fluid on the ground; a leaking head gasket would result in puffs of white smoke out the tailpipe not fluid leaks on the ground.
* medium gray gallon container with black label
** silver gallon container with orange/blue label
Hi, thanks so much for your reply. I am no longer seeing any coolant leaking and I do keep an eye on it. Now it is leaking oil but my local mechanic told me that the seals will do that in an older car. Right now I cannot afford to go to the dealer for everything. I got the head gaskets fixed in Youngstown Pa, Dale Davis. I hope I didn't get ripped off. Being a woman I am a target of sorts. He told me (Dale) under no circumstances to use dex-cool because thats what started the problem in the first place. I have a one year warranty and have had it there 3 times and the last time the coolant stopped leaking. I have one more year before I can get another newer Caddy. (love em) my local guy doesnt work on Northstar engines. He did tell me he pressure tested it. do you think that I should have the coolant changed? I have the universal stuff in there now. I was so worried this winter that I checked it every other day before I would drive. And since it is so hard to see where the fill line is I actually have a tape measure that I use to set a 4.5" so that I can make sure it's alright. Isn't there a pink one. Tks again, Jamie...Pgh. Pa
No coolant leaking: a good thing. If the level in the overflow tank goes down regularly though that could be a sign of the head job failing.
...
Oil leaking: Not really a good thing but expensive to fix I am afraid. If it is the oil pan seal or the rear main bearing seal leaking, the engine has to be removed to correct from what I've read so far; lots of money. The rear main seal started leaking on my Honda Accord LX when it got to be around 20 years old. Too expensive to fix so I just kept kitty litter in a tray in the garage and checked the oil level a lot. If it is the valve cover seal (real common if anyone has "touched them" which would be true for any head work), then they should be replaced under the head work warranty. Under no circumstances allow anyone to add a "oil leak sealant" of any kind to your oil. At best it does nothing. At worst it can clog up important oil channels inside the engine possibly causing a melt-down and destroying the engine without warning.
In regard to Dex-Cool: this has been a raging argument amongst mechanics for many years. From what I learned earlier today, Dex-Cool is chemically different from older antifreezes because GM designs their newer engines using aluminum (which the older antifreezes are allergic to). Oddly enough, most modern antifreezes are going the same direction as Dex-Cool* (although they don't advertise this for obvious reasons) because many car manufacturers are using more and more aluminum engines to keep the weight down.
The problem is compounded by various GM design errors (incompatible gasket materials, head bolt issues, etc.) that have plagued GM owners over the years. There have even been class action suits though the outcomes are still being debated.
The most serious problem with Dex-Cool is that, unlike the older, silicone-based antifreezes, it has a finite operating life. It uses a different, non-silicone chemistry to provide anti-corrosion protection which is necessary for modern aluminum engines. In fact, this is one of the reasons modern antifreezes are moving away from the silicone-derived formulations.
And, from what I've read, the consensus is that GM is wildly, wildly optimistic with it's "change every 5 years or 150,000 miles" recommendation. The chemicals in it simply do not last that long. From what I've read, Dex-Cool really needs to be changed (with a complete flush) every two years.
As I mentioned yesterday, Prestone sells their version of Dex-Cool in dark gray containers**.
Another thing I've learned since yesterday is that Prestone also sells a new OAT-based technology antifreeze*** which would be compatible with our aluminum Northstar engines!
IMHO, it is still important to flush and change the coolant every 2 years but that is cheap compared to a head job or replacing the engine.
As usual, the real problem is finding a mechanic one can trust to do the job correctly. I wish you luck in that department. Ask around to friends with GM cars and compare notes with them is all I can say.
NOTE: Both of these antifreezes I referenced are 50/50; in other words, premixed with water at the factory so you do NOT have to add any water, just pour it into the reservoir, as needed. One good thing about this is that they do NOT use tap water which would introduce chemicals into the cooling system that could cause failures. Sure one is paying for water but the convenience factor alone is well worth it.
In regard to another Cadillac ... hmmm ... to be honest I'd recommend a Honda Accord LX or EX, or a Toyota Avalon. Check the reliability section of the annual auto issue of Consumer Reports and you will see what I mean. Statistically, these models consistently kick GM's butt in the reliability department. And, both are made right here in America (Honda Accord's in Marysville, Ohio, and Avalon's in Georgetown, Kentucky). My brother-in-law gave me his DeVille when he bought his 2015 Avalon and he is totally in love with it. Coincidentally, the Avalon is the same size as the current full-sized Cadillac (XTS), gets better mileage and costs less to boot (2014**** and 2015*****).
* http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/124 and http://www.sancarlosradiator.com/dex-cool.htm
** http://www.walmart.com/ip/Prestone-Dex-Cool-Extended-Life-Antifreeze-Coolant-Quickfill/16889202
*** http://www.walmart.com/ip/Prestone-Extended-Life-Prediluted-Antifreeze-Coolant-Premix/16879961
**** http://www.autoguide.com/new-cars/compare/2014-Cadillac-XTS-vs-2014-Toyota-Avalon-vs-2014-Lexus-GS-350.html
***** http://www.autoguide.com/new-cars/compare/2015-Cadillac-XTS-vs-2015-Toyota-Avalon-vs-2015-Honda-Accord-Sedan.html?compareStyles=367547,371379,372818
Hi, thank you so very much for taking the time to answer my post. And I am thinking that you are exactly correct. I paid big bucks for that DeVille and it only has 135,000 miles on it since 2004. Most of them highway miles. There are a couple of people who have asked me to buy the car but as I said I have to wait for almost a year to get another car. (only because I would have to pay to get money out of my investments and the market is up right now). Anyway, it needs a few cosmetic things done so I think that I will take your advise and break out the kitty litter, keep checking, and make sure that I keep the engine oil changed. The guy that redid the heads changed the fluid because he told me to put nothing but the green stuff in it and that was just last Sept. Will get it pressure tested and changed again in another 10 months. Thanks again, "totally confused female" LMAO
Hi, thanks so much for your reply. I am no longer seeing any coolant leaking and I do keep an eye on it. Now it is leaking oil but my local mechanic told me that the seals will do that in an older car. Right now I cannot afford to go to the dealer for everything. I got the head gaskets fixed in Youngstown Pa, Dale Davis. I hope I didn't get ripped off. Being a woman I am a target of sorts. He told me (Dale) under no circumstances to use dex-cool because thats what started the problem in the first place. I have a one year warranty and have had it there 3 times and the last time the coolant stopped leaking. I have one more year before I can get another newer Caddy. (love em) my local guy doesnt work on Northstar engines. He did tell me he pressure tested it. do you think that I should have the coolant changed? I have the universal stuff in there now. I was so worried this winter that I checked it every other day before I would drive. And since it is so hard to see where the fill line is I actually have a tape measure that I use to set a 4.5" so that I can make sure it's alright. Isn't there a pink one. Tks again, Jamie...Pgh. Pa
No coolant leaking: a good thing. If the level in the overflow tank goes down regularly though that could be a sign of the head job failing. ... Oil leaking: Not really a good thing but expensive to fix I am afraid. If it is the oil pan seal or the rear main bearing seal leaking, the engine has to be removed to correct from what I've read so far; lots of money. The rear main seal started leaking on my Honda Accord LX when it got to be around 20 years old. Too expensive to fix so I just kept kitty litter in a tray in the garage and checked the oil level a lot. If it is the valve cover seal (real common if anyone has "touched them" which would be true for any head work), then they should be replaced under the head work warranty. Under no circumstances allow anyone to add a "oil leak sealant" of any kind to your oil. At best it does nothing. At worst it can clog up important oil channels inside the engine possibly causing a melt-down and destroying the engine without warning. In regard to Dex-Cool: this has been a raging argument amongst mechanics for many years. From what I learned earlier today, Dex-Cool is chemically different from older antifreezes because GM designs their newer engines using aluminum (which the older antifreezes are allergic to). Oddly enough, most modern antifreezes are going the same direction as Dex-Cool* (although they don't advertise this for obvious reasons) because many car manufacturers are using more and more aluminum engines to keep the weight down. The problem is compounded by various GM design errors (incompatible gasket materials, head bolt issues, etc.) that have plagued GM owners over the years. There have even been class action suits though the outcomes are still being debated. The most serious problem with Dex-Cool is that, unlike the older, silicone-based antifreezes, it has a finite operating life. It uses a different, non-silicone chemistry to provide anti-corrosion protection which is necessary for modern aluminum engines. In fact, this is one of the reasons modern antifreezes are moving away from the silicone-derived formulations. And, from what I've read, the consensus is that GM is wildly, wildly optimistic with it's "change every 5 years or 150,000 miles" recommendation. The chemicals in it simply do not last that long. From what I've read, Dex-Cool really needs to be changed (with a complete flush) every two years. As I mentioned yesterday, Prestone sells their version of Dex-Cool in dark gray containers**. Another thing I've learned since yesterday is that Prestone also sells a new OAT-based technology antifreeze*** which would be compatible with our aluminum Northstar engines! IMHO, it is still important to flush and change the coolant every 2 years but that is cheap compared to a head job or replacing the engine. As usual, the real problem is finding a mechanic one can trust to do the job correctly. I wish you luck in that department. Ask around to friends with GM cars and compare notes with them is all I can say. NOTE: Both of these antifreezes I referenced are 50/50; in other words, premixed with water at the factory so you do NOT have to add any water, just pour it into the reservoir, as needed. One good thing about this is that they do NOT use tap water which would introduce chemicals into the cooling system that could cause failures. Sure one is paying for water but the convenience factor alone is well worth it. In regard to another Cadillac ... hmmm ... to be honest I'd recommend a Honda Accord LX or EX, or a Toyota Avalon. Check the reliability section of the annual auto issue of Consumer Reports and you will see what I mean. Statistically, these models consistently kick GM's butt in the reliability department. And, both are made right here in America (Honda Accord's in Marysville, Ohio, and Avalon's in Georgetown, Kentucky). My brother-in-law gave me his DeVille when he bought his 2015 Avalon and he is totally in love with it. Coincidentally, the Avalon is the same size as the current full-sized Cadillac (XTS), gets better mileage and costs less to boot (2014**** and 2015*****). * http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/124 and http://www.sancarlosradiator.com/dex-cool.htm ** http://www.walmart.com/ip/Prestone-Dex-Cool-Extended-Life-Antifreeze-Coolant-Quickfill/16889202 *** http://www.walmart.com/ip/Prestone-Extended-Life-Prediluted-Antifreeze-Coolant-Premix/16879961 **** http://www.autoguide.com/new-cars/compare/2014-Cadillac-XTS-vs-2014-Toyota-Avalon-vs-2014-Lexus-GS-350.html ***** http://www.autoguide.com/new-cars/compare/2015-Cadillac-XTS-vs-2015-Toyota-Avalon-vs-2015-Honda-Accord-Sedan.html?compareStyles=367547,371379,372818
Hi, thank you so very much for taking the time to answer my post. And I am thinking that you are exactly correct. I paid big bucks for that DeVille and it only has 135,000 miles on it since 2004. Most of them highway miles. There are a couple of people who have asked me to buy the car but as I said I have to wait for almost a year to get another car. (only because I would have to pay to get money out of my investments and the market is up right now). Anyway, it needs a few cosmetic things done so I think that I will take your advise and break out the kitty litter, keep checking, and make sure that I keep the engine oil changed. The guy that redid the heads changed the fluid because he told me to put nothing but the green stuff in it and that was just last Sept. Will get it pressure tested and changed again in another 10 months. Thanks again, "totally confused female" LMAO