Car spins over fast and strong but won't start. Did this twice before but started an hour or so later. This time not starting. No one local has a diagnostic device compatible with this vehicle. what I know: No spark has fuel pressure (EFI) timing belt is not broken has new distributor and components suspect: crankshaft position sensor ignition module (if there is one separate from distributor) engine computer This was my main vehicle for mail delivery - using the back-up vehicle (another corolla) thanks!
Where is the ignition module? And whereis the crankshaft position sensor? on 1994 Toyota Corolla
by backwatereddy in Westville, FL on October 03, 2012
2 answers 21 comments
ANSWER by pushrod , October 03, 2012
NO CKP SENSOR,,NO EXTERNAL MODULE. I BET YOU HAVE DIST. PROBLEM EVEN THOUGH YOU SAID IT IS "NEW". NOW, IS IT NEW OR REMAN? YOU ALSO SAID TURNS OVER FAST, SURE ABOUT TIMING BELT? ANOTHER POSS. WIREING,BLOWN EFI FUSE " LASTLY"ECM. A HIGH END SCANNER IS A MUST!! GOT TO KEEP THE USPS GOING. LET ME KNOW WHAT'S UP. I STILL SUSPECT DISTRIBUTOR. YOU CAN HOOK UP ANOTHER DIST. GROUND IT WITH TEST LEAD TURN KEY ON SPIN DIST. BY HAND CHECK FOR SPARK. GOOD LUCK.
COMMENT by backwatereddy , October 03, 2012
Thanks - and good news - There was a valid reason I couldn't find the ckp or the ig.mod. The distributor and components are supposed to be new, but hey, who really knows? I swapped around efi fuses with the same result (no fire), but haven't otherwise tested the efi fuse or bought a new one. Timing belt is intact (distributor rotor turns when the engine does). Should have already mentioned this, but there IS 12v going into the distributor when the key is on; just no spark coming out. And not even weak or intermittant fire - nothing at all - not even a tingle if I put a screw driver in the plug wire, ground it and hold on while the engine spins. Will a bad EFI fuse interupt the spark? I am fairly ignorant about "new" car technology (1994?!), but ruling out ckp and ig.mod, it seems to me that it has to be either a bad "new" distributor assembly or the ECM. Is there anything else that can interrupt the fire to the plugs? Hey, thanks again.
COMMENT by pushrod , October 03, 2012
DID YOU INSTALL THIS DIST. FOR THIS PROBLEM WITH THE SAME RESULTS-NO SPARK? CHECK ALL FUSES THAT YOU CAN FIND WITH A TEST LIGHT ON EACH SIDE OF THE FUSE, KEY ON. ANY ADD ON SECURITY DEVICES? JUST RANDOM THOUGHTS. I OWN A 93, GREAT LITTLE CARS! ONLY PROBLEM I "EVER" HAD WAS THE DISTRIBUTOR!!!! I GUESS THAT IS WHY I KEEP PICKING ON THE DIST. MAY BE WAY OFF WITH MY "GUESS". NEVER HAD AN ECM PROBLEM WITH THIS MODEL BUT THAT DON'T MEAN A LOT. ALSO CHECK ALL RELAYS AS THERE IS ONE FOR THE ECM. THATS ABOUT ALL I KNOW.
COMMENT by backwatereddy , October 04, 2012
Yes, the distributor was replaced to remedy this current problem. I'll try my old distributor on the running Corolla (a '93 but otherwise apparently identical) and go from there. If the one I replaced was actually ok, then I'll try your other suggestions before going after the computer. thanks again
ANSWER by ziptie12 , October 04, 2012
From what I've checked , the ignition module and coil are both in the distributor. Has the coil been inspected for heat marks or signs of arcing internally? Can compare resistance of suspect coil with that of one in running corolla. A faulty re-man would not be unusual , depending on brand.
COMMENT by backwatereddy , October 04, 2012
no sign of obvious arcing or heating on the original distributor. As suggested earlier. I will plug it in and ground it to the functional Corolla, hook up a plug wire and plug and spin it over - Sunday will be my next opportunity - trusting the back-up Toyota to hold up that long. Someone local mentioned "knock sensor" on some models that is supposed to function much like a ckp. If there is such a thing, I haven't found it yet. Really great help and suggestions on this site. When (not if) I get this thing going, I'll post the solution for anyone who might have a similar problem.
COMMENT by pushrod , October 04, 2012
NO KNOCK SENSOR, BUT WE HAVE TO BE RIGHT AT THE TROUBLE KEEP US POSTED. THANKS!
COMMENT by backwatereddy , October 07, 2012
Okay, did your distributor test, Wetry, and tried your suggestion of plugging the old distributor into the functional corolla, grounding it and turning it by hand. And thanks for that suggestion. Seems simple enough but I hadn't tried it. If I had, I wouldn't have bought the new one (now back in the box) because the old one worked perfectly. My problem is definitely not the distributor or any component in it. As there is definitely 12v to the dist., what else, besides the engine computer can render the distributor sparkless? What about those EFI relays under the hood near the battery? Don't they control only injector timing? Or spark too?
COMMENT by pushrod , October 07, 2012
TRY THIS, PULL ONE CAR BESIDE THE OTHER, WITH A TEST LIGHT AND VOLT/OHM METER FIND OUT WHAT IS MISSING ON THE 94. CAN SWAP RELAYS ECT. AS NEEDED. DON'T THINK ECM IS THE SAME BUT WHO KNOWS. THIS IS VERY UNUSUAL FOR THIS CAR AS THEY ARE PRETTY MUCH BULLET PROFF. LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU FIND. CHECK WIRE HARNESS TO DIST.FIRST FOR VOLTAGE AND GROUND ON EACH CAR. YOU WILL FIND IT! JUST THOUGHT OF THIS,IS C.E.LIGHT ON WITH KEY ON? CHECK EVERY FUSE YOU CAN FIND.
COMMENT by ziptie12 , October 08, 2012
Just remembered , on Toyota , theres a diagnostic connector under the hood -maybe 2 side-by-side , one larger than the other (about an inch by inch&a-half) pop the lid open and inside the cover there should be a label showing the 'pin' connections. look for 'T' and 'TE1' jump them together and turn the key on to get 'flash codes' from check engine light. PLEASE!! If someone reading this can elaborate more on this please do! It's been a long time and I hope I'm remembering correct. And I gotta admit , having a duplicate that works, to test and compare with is a definite plus!
COMMENT by backwatereddy , October 08, 2012
I'll try that tomorrow evening after work. IT'S TOMORROW AND THERE'S NO "CHECK ENGINE LIGHT". I'M SURE THAT MEANS SOMETHING SPECIFIC TO SOMEONE WHO ISN'T ME. What I learned yesterday: You can pull almost any relay and fuse and the car will still fire plugs EXCEPT the EFI relay and fuse under the hood near the battery. With those pulled out (or bad) the car will turn over fine but won't fire plugs (or, I'm guessing, the injectors). I thought I had it until I swapped them from one corolla to the other and the running corolla still ran, and the dead corolla stayed dead. If there isn't a crank position sensor hiding somewhere in there, then I'm pretty much down to the computer. Maybe the flash code plan will shed some light and spare me another pricey stab in the dark. Can't really complain though, 235k on the odo. Engine's strong enough to pull another 100k if I can get around this issue. Just found this online: Toyota OBD1 Codes Retrieval For Pre-1996 Vehicles Toyota 1990-1995 vehicles obd1 code retrieval When the check engine light shows up in your 1990-95 Toyota vehicle, the quickest way to get the code is to access the diagnostic connector in the engine compartment ( usually sitting in the fender) or by the kick panel under the dash board in the passenger side. Connect a jumper wire between terminals TE1 and E1 terminals and by turning the key on, it will start flashing the codes in your dash. On Tercel and MR2, use the jumper wire between terminals T and E1 instead. If there are no codes, the check engine light will flash 2 times per second CONSTANTLY with no patterns or pauses. If there are any codes, it will be shown in 2 digits codes. Example: code 24 is shown as 2 flashes, a pause followed by 4 flashes. If there are mode codes, the next one will transmitted after 2.5 seconds. (One some models, codes are displayed in one digit code only and the difference is the codes are displayed with 4.5 seconds delay between codes). When finished reading the codes, turn the key off and remove the jumper wire. Here are the common codes for Toyota vehicles 1988-95: Code 11 Momentary interruption in power supply to ECU (electronic control unit or computer) up to 1991 Code 12 Engine revolution signal missing Code 13 Rpm signal to ecu missing above 1000 rpm Code 14 Igniter signal to ecu missing Code 16 A/T control signal missing from ecu Code 21 Main oxygen sensor signal fault Code 22 Water temperature sensor circuit fault Code 23 and 24 Intake air temperature signal fault Code 25 Air/fuel ratio LEAN Code 26 Air/fuel ratio RICH Code 27 Sub-oxygen sensor signal or heater circuit fault Code 28 No.2 oxygen sensor/heater signal fault Code 31 and 32 Air flow meter circuit or Vacuum sensor signal fault Code 34 and 36 Turbo-charging pressure signal fault Code 35 Altitude compensation sensor signal fault Code 41 Throttle position circuit fault Code 42 Vehicle speed sensor circuit Code 43 No starter signal to the ecu Code 51 AC signal on; DL contact off (in trany shifter with diagnostic connector jumped) Code 52, 53 and 55 Knock sensor fault Code 71 EGR system malfunction Code 72 Fuel cut solenoid signal fault Code 78 Fuel pump control signal fault Code 81, 83, 84 and 85 TCM communication fault After getting the above OBD1 fault codes, reset it by disconnecting the battery negative terminal for 1-2 minutes and reconnect. Get the code again when the engine is warmed up. The next bunch of codes are the ones you will fix. Doesn't say which of these kills fire to the plugs or what's the fix. Still might become clearer with some hands on.
COMMENT by ziptie12 , October 10, 2012
I hope you get this! You're definitely on the right track. Fix it and get that other 100K out of it! we want our darn mail on time!.......Keep us posted. Good luck!
COMMENT by pushrod , October 10, 2012
IF THERE IS NO CHECK ENG. LIGHT THERE IS NO POWER/GROUND TO COMPUTER OR THE COMPUTER IS DEFECTIVE. IF POWER AT +B IN DIAG.BOX ALL RELAYS AND FUSES ARE OK. WILL BE HARD TO GET FLASH CODES. WILL NEED WIRING SCHEMATIC TO LOCATE SUPPLY FOR + & - . TOUGH ONE!!! KEEP US POSTAGED!
COMMENT by backwatereddy , October 10, 2012
I should have mentioned that the spare Corolla is the wife's car. She is "encouraging" me to get the primary mail car going ASAP. Here's the new news (at least I only just noticed it): When the key is on there is a faint, high-pitched sound emanating from the computer, but none of the other cycling noises the running car makes. And, as mentioned, no "check" light. I'm about ready to take the plunge for a brain box. And yes, makes reading fault codes moot. Thanks for the opportunity to use the word "moot". That may be the first time in this life that I've had the opportunity. Only 4 letters and a lonely, single syllable, yet worth 50 cents easy.
COMMENT by ziptie12 , October 10, 2012
This reply is moot, but I'm glad to see you're hanging in there! Wetry mentioned what I failed to , about the check engine light (thanks B.)......Keep the wife happy!
COMMENT by pushrod , October 11, 2012
Hey y'all, keeping wife happy is #1! The rest is MOOT, I had to use it too since i looked it up to find out what the Hell it means. Had a pretty good idea though. I think at this point a computer is what it is going to take to fix this car. It's been fun, at least for me! Between the three of us were worth at least $1.50.
COMMENT by ziptie12 , October 11, 2012
My cut's only a dime./////////////////////. 10/19/12.......FIXED YET? WHAT WAS IT?
COMMENT by backwatereddy , October 23, 2012
Sorry it took so long to get back - I got a half day today and took the time to put a new computer in the toyo. Still no "engine" light, still no spark. Beginning to see why there are so many vehicles for sale out there with a plethora (word for the day!)of new parts yet stubbornly disfunctional. I am officially out of ideas. I talked to the service manager at the local Toyota dealership, he scratched his head and suggested all the things that have already been done as well as the crankshaft position sensor (pretty sure there isn't one) and the knock sensor (same deal). I found a 1978 mail jeep with a 4 cyl engine, a carburetor, and 1st gen. electronic ignition. Pretty tempting to retro-grade and have a clue about my ride. My Sunday ride is a 38 yr old ironhead harley with points and a carburetor. See fire, see gas, set timing - it goes - doesn't even need much compression.
COMMENT by pushrod , October 23, 2012
THE "ONLY" THING LEFT IS AN OPEN CIRCUIT TO THE ECM. IT IS NOT GETTING EITHER POWER OR GROUND OR BOTH!! FROM IGNITION SWITCH OR BROKEN WIRE. TIME TO GET A SCHEMATIC OF THE COMPUTER CONNECTORS TO FIND MISSING SUPPLY. TRUN KEY ON AND START MOVING WIRE HARNESS TO SEE IF YOU HEAR STUFF CLICK. WITH EVERYTHING HOOKED UP OF COURSE.
COMMENT by backwatereddy , October 23, 2012
Wetry, Will do as you say next off day. Rooted in the dark ages of technology, I am somewhat adrift but somewhat adaptable. Hey, does the throttle position sensor affect spark? Does the '94 have one? And where is it?
COMMENT by cdtopdawg , February 08, 2014
did you ever get this fixed, my 94 Toyota Corolla is having the exact same problem and I can't figure it out
COMMENT by Nico Le , April 12, 2014
I also am having this same problem! Worked through all the tests, the dist. bits all test out. Don't have the money to gamble at expensive parts replacement. I hope the original poster will update.. thanks
COMMENT by Jellow man , May 08, 2014
I am having the same exact problem with no spark. changed the distributor and swithed relays with another car. It ran but my broken one still has no spark even with the parts from the good one. What else is there to do? If you ever find out let us know, Car is nice 100,000 miles on it. It just shut off one day. I have had other Toyotas and ran them 10s of thousands of miles with only one distributer to replace. Distributor is definitely their weak point.