Few topics in the automotive repair business are as controversial and confrontational as the fee for a diagnosis. Should a customer have to pay for the time the mechanic spends figuring out what is wrong with a vehicle or only for the repairs he or she actually makes? These days, don't technicians just plug the car into a computer to figure out what's wrong?
Everyone, from consumers to advice columnists, have a strong opinion on this topic. But what’s missing is a technician’s point of view on the subject, so here goes …
A customer dropped his vehicle off at our shop last week. He wanted us to find out why his power seat would not move forward. We removed the side panel and tested the wiring and electronic motor circuits. A few more pinpoint tests led us to the problem—a faulty seat switch, which, with parts and labor, totaled nearly $170. The customer declined the repairs and asked us to reassemble the seat.
When we handed over the bill for the diagnostic charge, he refused to pay, saying, “You just told me that my seat was broken. I already knew that.” In his mind, we hadn’t told him anything he didn’t already know, so he didn’t understand why he should be charged for anything when no repair was actually performed.
The manager of the service department where I am employed once said something to me that best clarifies and sums up our position—“We sell service.” Because service is not really a tangible item, it often doesn’t appear to have intrinsic value. But anyone who has experienced bad service knows how crucial good service can be.
Sometimes it’s difficult for a customer to understand the value of a technician’s time. At a grocery store, a pound of prosciutto ham and a gallon of milk have inherent tangible value that’s reflected in the price. You pay money and you get to take it home. But service in itself isn’t something you can take home—it isn’t something you can hold in your hands. But let’s say you are in therapy. After an appointment, you would never refuse to pay because you didn’t get the results you were looking for. We pay experts for their time, training, and the skills they have acquired—no results are guaranteed.
Many customers balk at paying diagnostics fees, especially when it comes to trouble codes. Often customers think that the simple reading of a trouble code (which takes less than five minutes) completes the repair process, when actually, it’s just the beginning. For example, the P0503 code, which indicates a malfunctioning vehicle speed sensor, has forty-one steps spanning eleven pages in a shop manual after the code has been set. Examining those forty-one steps takes time and expertise to examine—shouldn’t the technician be paid for that time?
Ultimately, it really is less expensive to pay a qualified technician for a proper diagnosis than it is to replace components based on a hunch of what might be wrong. They may have dirty fingernails, but some senior master automobile technicians actually have as much training as medical professionals—why should their time matter any less?
I have never understood why I had to pay someone to tell me what was wrong with my car when I already knew what was wrong. Now that you have explained it I completely understand. Thank you!
I don't have a problem paying for service but when you hook a machine up to run a diagnostic test to search for why the service engine light is on. Should it cost $100.00?
@jonelsr - This isn't much different than a doctor providing a cat scan or a dentist taking x-rays. The test should be seen as part of the service, but the real value comes from a professional examining the test results. You wouldn't want me looking at your cat scan and providing any kind of diagnosis, nor would you want a doctor telling you why the check engine light is on. Both require years of experience to properly read and interpret the results from such equipment. So in the end, you are paying for a service, along with expensive equipment and personnel training.
as much as medical personal when you go to school for 14 years after high school pay a half million for a educaation and a quater million for yearly liability insurance then you can compare yourself to someone whom actually is regulated by state and fed laws.Sounds like you want to be paid for a estimate, if you cant find out what is wrong in a timely manner why should yhe customer pay for your incompetance?
Brian, Thats a great analagy of paying for service that everyone should understand. You know the difference between a doctor and a technician. Doctors get to bury their rechecks.
I run a Mobile Auto repair biz and my customers ask this question all the time. My answer goes something like this: If you dont know what the problem is and the problem is not immediately apparent to me , and takes me time to run down the source, then yes there is a charge. However if you dont want me to charge you a diagnostic fee then #1 you tell me what is wrong, #2 tell me what part to change. If its the wrong part then thats on you and you still have to pay me for the work...and dont forget that part you didnt need.
An estimate and diagnosis are two completly different things. An estimate is something that you the customer already knows is wrong with the car and can simply be looked up in a book and figure out a cost. If you choose to replace the part without it being diagnosed and it doesnt fix the problem who is to blame? We try to cover our basis. Some items you simply cannot diagnose for free. Scan tools cost alot of money and the ones at parts stores are much cheaper and can only retreive a code. From thier they try to sell you all the parts that could be wrong. Now why would you want to buy all of those parts put them on and not have your problem fixed? Why not pay someone 38-77 dollars to diagnose the problem and know exactly what is wrong.
I spent over 28 years Diagnosing Driveability Problems. (Car and Truck Tuneup Problems)I dont see charging a customer for somthing you cant fix. But let it be known first upfront that there is a half hour, (.5) Minimum Diagnostic Charge that will have to be paid weather the problem is found or not. If the problem is found then charge a full hour of Diagnostic Time. (1.0)plus labor to fix and part mark up for the part. You are in Business to MAKE MONEY not to give your time away for FREE! That Scanner cost me $7,000 to buy and and my tools cost another $10,000! My education and Certifications also cost me a few Thousand Dollars Also! Should I work on your Vehicle for FREE? lol Please visit my blog at: http://autorepairsavings.blogspot.com/ -The Autodude-
Great Information here! Sorry I signed up above anomymous but I am in now. Please follow me Repair Pal on Twitter at http://Twitter.com/Autodude46 -The Autodude-
If warranty work is being done, shouldn't diagnostics be covered?
Warranty work doesn't always include diagnostic fees. Aftermarket warranties sometimes require you to pay the diagnostic fees. Manufacturer warranties will cover the diagnosis charges.
only one thing you left out the cost of the scan tool my was about $7000.00 from snap-on and the shop to bring your car to was $450,000 the insurance to cover the shop arownd $300.00 per mounth so yes we should get paid for every second we work on the $40,000 car
When you go to a place like Auto Zone and they run a scan with a small $50 dollar scanner that's what I call a "quick and dirty" scan. It gives you just about enough information to be dangerous. I believe that this type of "scan" should not cost the customer. Conversely, I believe that the customer should be charged for diagnostics when you use a scanner that costs $10,000.00, takes twenty minutes to set up and calibrate and can test 4273 different processes on your vehicle. The real reason for having your vehicle scanned is to ASSIST the diagnostics person in identifing and correcting the problem without guessing or replacing parts until the problem is corrected. Correcting the problem also depends on the knowledge of the person running the scanner to correctly interpert the information. Case in point: I recently had a customer bring in a BMW that another shop had done $3500.00 worth of work to and according to the customer, the vehicle still had the same problem. The "scanner" had said to replace coil packs, and multiple other components, all of which totaled $3500.00 which the "other" shop did. Upon my "scanning" the vehicle, multiple codes were present which indicated that several components needed to be replaced including the coil packs. The REAL problem was $25.00 worth of vacuum hoses which when replaced, corrected his problem. A scanner is no more than a "tool" that assists the diagnostics person in making the correct decision which ultimately costs the consumer less in the long run. ANYBODY can repair even a persent day vehicle if you replace parts until you correct the problem. I have been in the automotive business since 1965 and have lived through the transition of vehicles becoming a rolling computer. While the scanner is a helpful tool, it is just that... a tool and should not be considered "always right." You would be supprised at what the scanners don't know.
I HAVE FOUND THAT AN EXPLANATION OF SERVICES BEFORE THEY ARE DONE MAKES THE WORLD OF DIFF. MOST PEOPLE ARE OK AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT SURPRISED WITH THE BILL WHEN YOU ARE DONE THEY SHOULD ALREADY KNOW ABOUT WHAT IT SHOULD COST AND WHY AS IT IS UP TO US AS SHOP OWNERS TO DISCLOSE ALL THE INFO TO THE CUSTOMER SO THAT THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND HOW MUCH YOU ARE CHARGING SHOP OWNER
ok i have a diagnostic done on my car and i paid the $100 to get it. Now can i take that diagnostic report to different mechanics to get the best price for my repairs?
I dont have a problem paying for accurate diagnostics. i object to having my car 'hooked up' and then being told after the analysis that the fuel injectors need replacing, but it may also need a fuel pump as well. Surely the diagnostics machine can tell what needs doing?? Or am I being simple?
...and if you have a dodge you can utlize the self diagnostic procedure by turning the ignition on and off 3 times in a row, then turn it on again. When you do this the odometer displayes the error code. You go to the internet type in the errorcode and it will tell you the part that needs replacing and print it our for your friendly helpful mechanic. Saves a $100.
Here is my problem with it given the circumstance. I already knew the error code, and I knew what fix needed to be made. Me: "Just put a new thermostat in." Ford: "That will be $91 to diagnose the problem to determine if you need it.". Me: "Hmm, I will pay you to put a thermostat in, I don't need a diagnosis, don't waste your time and my money." Ford: "There is a $91 diagnosis fee.". Me: "Hmm, maybe we're not speaking the same language. I just need you to put a new thermostat in." Ford: "We can't do that without a diagnosis." Me: "I'm not paying for a dianogisis because I know what I want done, just put the thermostat in and I'll pay for the service and parts for that... just DO THAT.". Ford: "We can't do that without the $91 diagnosis fee." Me: !@#!@#%!#%!@#!$%!@#$!@#@#%$ *walks out, goes to find someone who has and will put a thermostat in for me*
I'm fine with paying for their time even if I opt not to get the work done there but not if they tell me that they can't determine what the problem is. Its their job to find out. I had a check engine light on and the diagnosis came back with an error code on a heater O2 sensor. Then they told me to go drive it for 50 miles and return so that they can get a reading on the 3 other sensors. I drove 200 miles, and still no answer except to go out and drive some more and come back again. To me it seems that they don't want to take the trouble to investigate what is blocking the information flow from the other sensors getting to the onboard computer. Instead if I drive it around enough, maybe something will "come unstuck" and get the results they need for a complete diagnosis. Why should they bother to do the hard work if they expect to get $90 for an incomplete diagnosis anyway?
As a 20 year veteran of the auto repair business, this is one area where I have learned to be as helpful as I can to a customer but still get paid for our time. Of course, repeat customers/loyalty/value all come in to play when I decide what to collect and when. I will always SCAN a 96 or newer engine light for free and report on the codes. This is NOT diagnosing. The customer usually appreciates the few minutes it takes and an explanation of whats involved in pinpointing the problem(s). From there if I cannot secure diagnostic time--no problem; I tried.. and quite honestly I'll move on to the next car. No mechanic I know makes $100 an hour. Our shop rate is $100 an hour for skilled technicians. (We do a $25 oil change that takes almost an hour, yet I don't charge $100--that's general service). My top tech earns $32/hour (flat rate). I need to pay for his medical benefits, workman's comp, uniforms, 401k, ongoing training/education and ASE certifications. Lets be conservative and say that puts MY COST at $65/hour. Now you can start adding lease, utilities, equipment, tools, insurance (OMG insurance!!), etc etc etc. None of this is the customer's problem, and I know most don't care. But here's the deal--no one's twisting your arm! If you're not picking up what the facility is puttin' down-- go! Drive around from shop to shop until you like what you hear--that's your choice! Why argue? We don't want to argue.. we just want to do our jobs and get paid for doing it--just like you. If I've accumulated experience, time-saving tools, short-cuts and can get things done well in half the time of a less experienced, ill-equipped tech-- should I be paid less?? NO! That is what you are saying when you say "That hour job only took you a half hour!". You have to trust the people you are leaving your car with. If there is no trust--just like a marriage--it is doomed from the start. You start looking thru their emails, their phones--they've got to be cheating--right?? I've popped hoods and found the problem instantaneously-- lean code-- blatant vacuum hose hanging off of the air box after the mass air meter. No customer would see that as a $100 value, and I can FULLY understand that. They dont care about my costs, feeding my family, overhead, computers.. 9 out of 10 times I will pop the hose on, tell them it was very,very simple.. no charge. I tell them I didnt diagnose anything--I saw an obvious problem, cleared the code and if it returns I will need to go further. Hopefully I earn a loyal customer from my honesty. I've always been in it for the long haul, not making a quick buck. I want long time, valuable repeat customers. I can weed out the bargain hunters pretty easily with the process I described. I don't install customer's parts, and I have no problem telling them that the #1 reason is YES--I NEED TO MAKE A PROFIT ON PARTS! No secret here! Autozone and Advanced are for do it yourselfers-- so do it yourself! Just my .02